Forest & Bird » Threats & Impacts

1080 and kea

(78 posts)
  • Started 10 months ago
  1. There has been an interesting exchange in the Greymouth Star over the past two weeks regarding the effect 1080 poison was having on kea in the Olivine Wilderness Area of south Westland.

    In this article, https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.227891507245418.65774.106600472707856&saved#!/photo.php?fbid=227891623912073&set=a.227891507245418.65774.106600472707856&type=1&theater published on 5 July 2011 Former hunter, Mike Bennett, asks the question "Where have all the kea gone?" before proceeding to supply his own answer that 1080 had all but wiped the birds out in the Olivine Wilderness Area of south Westland. He challenges the orthodox belief that kea have been in decline for at least 100 years due to bounty hunting and predation by introduced mammals.

    Not satisfied with that explanation, ecologist, eco-tourism operator and newly-appointed Conservation Ambassador Gerry McSweeney responded the following week with the alternative suggestion that the seeming absence of kea can be explained by the fact that they are extremely wide-ranging. In Gerry's experience, kea were thriving in areas like Otira and Lake Moeraki where 1080 had been used repeatedly. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.227891507245418.65774.106600472707856&saved#!/photo.php?fbid=227891710578731&set=a.227891507245418.65774.106600472707856&type=1&theater

    I'd be interested to hear people's personal experiences of how kea populations are faring in areas where 1080 has been used.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  2. Tawaki
    User Profile

    By far the greatest immediate human threat to kea is idiot people killing them and of course introduced pests destroying their nests.

    Perhaps the worst aspect of stupid humans, especially tourists and tour bus drivers, who feed keas is that they condition these wild birds to lose their natural shyness of humans.

    Kea then hang around the places that humans congregate expecting a food hand out. In 2002, a Fox Glacier resident killed 33 kea at the Fox Glacier carpark and was treated as a hero by some locals who paid his Court fine by passing the hat around in the local pub. The Fox Glacier keas had been hanging around the Fox Rubbish Dump and Glacier carpark waiting for hand outs and getting up to mischief.

    In Arthur's Pass National Park, tourists and travellers all think the kea are cute. Despite DOC signs everywhere cautioning the public against feeding kea, time and time again I have encountered tourists feeding kea because they think they are helping the birds. They are in fact helping to kill them!

    How are they helping to kill them? Well there are always a few human thugs out there who think it is fun to torture and kill wild animals. ...remember the baby seals killed at Ohau Point waterfall on the Kaikoura coast earlier this year. Those offenders were caught.

    Today, August 8, five young kea paid the ultimate price with their lives. These totally protected and long lived native birds were this morning found dead. They had been placed on a picnic table at the Klondyke Corner picnic and camping area, 10 km east of Arthur's Pass Village in the Arthur's Pass National Park. The DOC Ranger who found them thinks that they have been shot with a small calibre rifle or perhaps an air pistol but autopsies now underway will determine the exact cause of death.

    Unfortunately, at Klondyke Corner I have seen many campers and picnickers feeding kea. Consequently the birds here are now very tame and could easily be killed by anyone with malicious intent.

    HERE IS DOC'S MEDIA RELEASE ABOUT THE KILLING

    Media release

    Monday 8 August 2011

    Public asked to ring in about kea deaths

    Department of Conservation staff are calling for information about five dead young kea discovered at Klondyke Corner near Arthur’s Pass today.

    Anyone who was in the area around Klondyke Corner over the weekend of 6-7 August are asked to ring the 0800 DOCHOTline – 0800 36 24 68 or the Arthur’s Pass Field Centre.

    Arthur’s Pass Field Centre Supervisor Chris Stewart said the Department was keen to identify the cause of the deaths as quickly as possible, in order to prevent any more birds suffering the same fate.

    “The five birds have been sent away for an autopsy and DOC staff will be monitoring Klondyke Corner for any clues,” said Mr Stewart.

    “The five birds were found piled up on one of the picnic tables. We’re hoping to hear from anyone that can offer some insight into how they got there.”

    If you are able to help, please ring the DOC hotline or Mr Stewart directly on 027 272 9788.

    Kea are endangered, and while they are often seen, their wild population is only estimated at between 1000 – 5000 birds. Rated as one of the world’s most intelligent birds, they are only found in the Southern Alps of the South Island.

    –Ends–

    Contacts
    Sarah Mankelow (027 660 2508) or Lizzy Sutcliffe (027 470 1378)

    Posted 9 months ago #
  3. Predictably, people are already jumping to the conclusion that the 'dreaded 1080 poison' must be to blame. Four of the 14 comments so far on Stuff make this assumption: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5410014/Five-dead-kea-found-near-pass?comment_msg=posted#post_comment

    In my mind, this is sadly symptomatic of the hysteria around 1080 poison and the disturbing laziness of people when it comes to getting their facts straight.
    As Tawaki says above, yes 1080 has killed a few kea in the past. However, it has saved a hell of a lot more. People and pests, not acidental poisoning, are to blame for the majority of kea deaths. As long as we continue to overlook these while we panic about the small risk posed by 1080 we are not doing kea any favours at all.

    Anyway, it's all very well preaching to the converted on here, but please go on to Stuff and have YOUR say, or the scaremongers out there will re-write the facts as they usually do.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  4. Fascinating to see the difference in the comments Wellingtonians make from those made by Cantabrians http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/5409677/Five-dead-kea-found In the Press discussion forum, runholders and bored youths, not 1080, are the scapegoats!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  5. Tawaki
    User Profile

    Funny also how one of the Press contributors who says she loves the keas then goes on to say how much she enjoys them eating the crumbs off her picnic table.

    She, like so many Kiwi and international tourists who feed kea, doesn't understand that by feeding them, we humans completely change their behaviour. Kea will then hang around all the places people congregate in the mountains and wait for free food....and they become utterly vulnerable to sick idiots killing them for pleasure because the kea have lost any innate fear of humans.

    Our campaign against anyone feeding kea needs to be as enthusiastic and determined as was the campaign against feeding bears in US Parks and Forests.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. This video shows (in very graphic detail) the necroscopy of a kea that was deliberately placed on a DOC worker's driveway http://www.youtube.com/wat​ch?v=f5Dj5T2Fv9M

    Disturbingly, the results suggest that the bird may have been shot. This happened at around the same time that five other dead kea were found piled up on a picnic table at Arthur's Pass. It is a very sobering reminder that not everybody in this world values our native wildlife or, indeed, the wonderful work DOC are doing.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  7. While the latest kea-killing spree in the Southern Alps appears to be human-related, it is important to remember that the mammals we have introduced to New Zealand are also taking their toll on our native parrots, as this video compilation of stoats and possums attacking kea nests shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt-TF-fcRqk

    Via https://www.facebook.com/1080facts

    Posted 9 months ago #
  8. ethos
    User Profile

    It is very likely to be human related, be it toxin or shooting.
    It is fair to say that we have not yet been told what killed the kea at Arthurs pass so we should not jump to conclusions.
    However it is unfair to denounce speculation on 1080 as a possible cause of death, as past history has proven this toxin to be lethal to kea, and it is a toxin in use within flight range of where the dead birds were found.

    Not all those concerned with poison use are rabid antis, the more they are treated as such the more broad minds you narrow.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  9. Tawaki
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    As Chief Ranger of Arthur's Pass National Park Chris Stewart notes to the media:

    1. For many months there hasn't been any 1080 treatment to kill rats, possums or stoats anywhere within 40km of Klondyke Corner. The Department of Conservation's only use of 1080 anywhere on the eastern side of Arthur's Pass National Park is in the Hawdon Valley and Waimak Faces to save kiwi and orange fronted parakeet and they haven't used any there in 2011.

    2. The advocates for 1080 don't quite explain how the alleged 1080 then piled up the dead keas onto the picnic table or causd them all to die in a heap on top of each other at the same place!

    If a human death was being investigated, the autopsy results would be available wihin a very short time. Why the delay with the DOC results? It has nearly been a week now and that delay just invited crazy conjecture?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  10. auckland anne
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    Do you remember the hooha about the little blue penguins that were found dead on a beach on Waiheke not long after an aerial poison drop on nearby Rangitoto? And how a number of anti-1080 people jumped up immediately and blamed 1080 (even though the poison used at Rangitoto was broadificoum).
    As I remember it took some time to get conclusive results on what actually killed the birds, because the bird bodies had to go overseas to be analysed, presumably to ensure that the results came from a body independent of DoC or any of it's shock troops with ingrained bias towards 1080.
    Oh, it wasn't 1080 or even broadificoum that killed them, BTW.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  11. auckland anne
    User Profile

    By the way it seems imminently sensible to me to presume that a poison that hasn't been used in the area didn't kill the kea. I don't think that it's an unfair assumption to make at all. Mind you what would I know about theorising, I'm just one of those scientists with an ingrained bias towards 1080, apparently. Be a bit sensitive about who you slag off and what words you choose to describe them. It may come back to bite you if you don't.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  12. ethos
    User Profile

    Is this within 40 km?
    http://www.doc.govt.nz/upload/361/July%202011/wc16-otira.jpg

    auckland anne I dont appreciate your threat nowhere in my post do I "slag anyone off". Neither do I see a need to threaten.
    All you are doing is confirming the image of your organisation which you are trying to downplay.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  13. ethos
    User Profile

    Tawaki, I agree, the long time to release results only stirs more conjecture.
    To answer the second point you make, very obviously a passing motorist or tourist may very well have gathered up dead birds and left them not knowing what to do with them, that in itself doesnt make them more or less likely to have been shot or poisoned.

    As I said above, we dont yet know how the birds died but sounding off the usual fanfare against anyone who mentions 1080 does everyone a disservice.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  14. auckland anne
    User Profile

    I was referring to your comment on the other thread about 1080. The one where you definitely slag a group of conservationists off.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  15. ethos
    User Profile

    I am more interested in the facts relating to this incident than in getting personal, your resort to threat is duly noted though.
    The facts appear to point to aerial 1080 poison use by DoC well within the 40 km radius suggested, whatever spin they put on it. Poisoning is a possible differential diagnosis for these birds, it doesnt matter which coast it was applied on (the west in this case near Otira).
    It looks like a very disingenuous post from Tawakis friend from DoC APNP, however strongly DoC may feel the evidence points to shooting.

    How do you interpret the above link to a DoC poison summary in light of your statements earlier anne?
    Again let me stress, it is entirely possible these birds were shot or died from a different toxin, but we should keep open minds on what other causes of death are possible and not just switch to defensive mode and pull on the blinkers.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  16. Tawaki
    User Profile

    1. A West Coast DOC contact advised me that when he enquired how the autopsy being done at Massey University was going, 2 + days after the birds were found , they hadn't yet been sent away and were still at DOC Rangiora. The staff involved need a bomb under them to give the autopsy the urgency that it deserves.
    2. The kea found the same day as the dead birds at Arthur's Pass but this time in Ross, West Coast was autopsied the same day and found to have died of a gunshot wound.
    3. The 5 juvenile kea at Klondyke Corner had fresh blood and bruising when they were found. Had common sense prevailed, the bullet wounds would have been located and bullets extracted. However DOC's desire was to do things as formally and independently as possible hence the much delayed overseas trip for the 5 dead birds to the Massey University Vet Department facility. I think we can all understand that DOC wanted to avoid any suggestion of bias by giving the birds to a third party for autopsy. The delay unfortunately created another issue, namely wild conjecture.
    .

    Posted 9 months ago #
  17. ethos
    User Profile

    1) Delaying the sending of the birds will lessen any chance of 1080 being found should there be any, not to mention degradation of the carcass in terms of identifying subtle gross lesions. As an aside, if anyone doesnt know- 1080 degrades rapidly in body tissues, an animal testing negative for 1080 cannot have that toxin ruled out as a cause of death if another cause is not evident especially after more time has elapsed. This is a great hole in the stats for recognised bykill to 1080.

    2)Havnt heard about that one but I hope the offending party has the book thrown at them should they be located.

    3)Gunshot could often be ruled in/out rapidly by xray and post mortem here before tissue samples were sent for toxicology overseas.
    That said, it may be that DoC are being more than extremely careful in sending a post mortem to a third party. Maybe legal reasons could also cause a delay? If your point 1) is correct and if this turns out not to be gunshot related, then hard questions should be asked as to why they delayed for so long.

    Tawaki you havent commented on the obfuscation regarding your source in DoC APNP and the use of poison within flight range of where the birds were.
    With the misinformation put about regarding poison use in the area, you must understand why the public questions 1080 as a cause of death and why the word of the DoC worker interviewed (implying death by gunshot) at the time is not immediately accepted.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  18. Tawaki
    User Profile

    Greymouth Evening Star has advised this morning Aug 15 that the autopsy results show that the 5 juvenile keas found dead in Arthur's Pass National Park on a picnic table beside Highway 73 were killed by a combination of air rifle pellets and shotgun pellets.

    Watch the media for more details and I'm sure many Forest and Bird readers will have ideas what they would like to do to the person (s) responsible if they are ever found!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  19. ethos
    User Profile

    Encouraging fantasies of violence is not the answer IMHO, for the killer/s of these birds any more than those responsible for the DoC poisoning of a larger number of kea with 1080 in 2008.
    Threats and violent incitements are polarising the 1080 debate to the detriment of the animals we all should be trying to protect.

    I hope they apply the full force of the law to whoever is responsible in the event this shooting is found to be true.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  20. auckland anne
    User Profile

    It appears to have been a deliberate killing.
    The deaths by 1080 in 2008 were not deliberate.
    .
    In human terms its the difference beteeen murder and manslaughter. Premeditated and not.
    Deliberate and unfortunately "killed by friendly-fire" as it were

    I guess though that trapping and killing stoats and rats makes me and anyone else who sets traps as guilty of premediatated murder as those who shot the kea? However, let's not get too soft here; "innocent" animals get killed mistakenly and sometimes in an horrific manner by trapping as well as poisons. No method of killing pests is without it's faults. Best to look at the results instead.

    PS Remember that lots of medical treatments cause death as well as save lives; people still want them around and not banned though.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  21. Well said, Anne! When I'm explaining the need for systematic pest control to people, I often use the example of antibiotics to illustrate my point.

    The endemic NZ ecosystem is extremely sick, and we need to do whatever we can to heal it.

    The colonisation of NZ by pest mammals is analagous to a viral infection.

    Like any organism with no imunity, the 80-million year-ol NZ ecosystem was thoroughly unprepared for mammals.

    It's too much to hope that we will ever eradicate the pest animals or plants we've unleashed. But we can - and must - alleviate the harm they do.

    Like nearly all the drugs we use, there's a fine line between poison and remedy. In some cases, the treatment will even make you feel more sick before it makes you feel better.

    Like antibiotics, no solution is universal - we need a combination of treatments

    Like viruses, pests have strong survival instincts and will adapt - pest control always needs to stay one step ahead, and that takes money and innovation.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  22. ethos
    User Profile

    It is true that trapping and use of ground poisoning also have bykill but presentation, lure, trap and bait station design and placement mean that targeting can be very precise.

    There are no safe poisons, only more and less safe ways to use each.
    Broadcast by air with formulation to cause secondary deaths are both ways of multplying the risk of bykill.

    anne your medical analogy is an interesting one.
    Think primum non nocere -"first do no harm."
    To use a "treatment" without knowing what the expected nontarget mortality rate will even be (majority of birds not monitored through a drop), yet still with documented deaths across the spectrum (kea, weka, bush robins, ruru, harrier etc, dogs, cattle, sheep and so on), any doctor who chose to use this treatment in such an uncontrolled manner would be struck off.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  23. ethos
    User Profile

    Ertvarkie
    You cant treat a virus with antibiotics.
    This simple misunderstanding could explain a lot :)

    Posted 9 months ago #
  24. That's very true, ethos! That would certainly explain why I failed biology! But change 'virus' for 'bacterial infection' and the analogy works!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  25. Further to Tawaki's post, here's a copy of the Greymouth Star's kea killing coverage. Hope it's high-enough resolution.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  26. Hmm. You should be able to see it here https://www.facebook.com/1080facts#!/photo.php?fbid=244848815549687&set=a.129052383795998.14834.106600472707856&type=1&theater

    Posted 9 months ago #
  27. ethos
    User Profile

    Thanks for the link Ertvarkie.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  28. auckland anne
    User Profile

    Having spent several years in anti-cancer research, I was actually thinking mostly of chemotherapies. And no-one knows the mortality rates these might be responsible for,; the hope with an individual is that it will get the better of the cancer cells, but let's be honest, it could be a contributor to the patient's death instead.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  29. ethos
    User Profile

    Its also an interesting analogy though anne.
    If your analogy is that the pests are the cancer and chemotherapy is aerial 1080:
    Any single chemotherapeutic agent is unsuitable to be used in preference across the board on the wide range of cancers possible.
    Different agents and combinations need be used -some cancers are not amenable to chemotherapy at all.

    Do you advocate for a single chemotherapeutic agent to be used in all cancer patients regardless of the above?
    Why advocate for such a shotgun approach in pest control?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  30. auckland anne
    User Profile

    Sorry, don't understand where your question is leading. Can't help but
    think you're being vexatious and not contributing to any meaningful dabate here.

    I wasn't "advocating" for anything in particular, by the way. I was analogising.

    Thanks for telling me about cancer and chemotherapies - like I haven't been directly involved in anti-cancer research for some years myself and need it explaining! And I've thought heaps about the pros and cons of 1080 and the analogies with medical methodologies; hence my frustration expressed earlier where a lot of anti-1080 advocates seem to think that pre-1080 advocates haven't thought out their position. Come on, give some of us some credit, please. We're not all the "shock forces whose job is to parrot DoC" or whartever it was you described us as somewhere in these discussions.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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