The Green Room
What an excellent tool this poster (you can see it from theis website's Homepage - "A Birdbrain's Guide") is for showing the pros of 1080.
It explains everything in a simple straightforward way.
http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/files/file/1080%20poster%20landscape.pdf
Yes sometimes the scientists amongst us forget that the majority like me have a reading age of 8 and this presentation is something I can understand. Message - make things simple with simple messages.... and well done Tim and Ann from KCC
This poster is most definitely made for kids.... they would not understand the impact that 1080 or broadifacoum has on our environment..... and these posters are so flippant and unreal.....
whilst F & B accept and condone the use of these poisons in our country, I will never ever give them one cent. I have seen/heard the silence where brodifacoum has been used in my area... 5 years later I hear a few moremorks.... there must be other ways.
I have a great admiration for the KCC publication however presenting 1080 in this tinsel town fashion ignores the fact it is a very cruel way to kill animals. We do not want these introduced species in our forests however we also do not want to portray 1080 as anything more than a crude way of solving the problem.
The more F&B snuggles up to 1080 the more it alienates itself from people who would otherwise be members and support the F&B objective. In my view F&B should be lobbying hard to eliminate the use of 1080 with an alternative humane way of ridding ourselves of these pests.
I absolutely agree with you Wellyboot.... well said!
Until equally effective pest control methods are found, we believe using a poison that breaks down readily in the environment is a small price to pay for ensuring the survival of our native flora and fauna. 1080 is a naturally occurring substance, found in many plants and tea leaves, it’s biodegradeable and leaves no toxic residues. These days, 1080 operations use a relatively small amount of 1080, distributed at a rate of 3kg, or 280 pellets per hectare - the equivalent to three pellets in an area of forest the size of an average house. We are more than open to ideas of how our pest problem can be combated however until we find something equally as effective, this is our best option. Without the use of 1080, many of New Zealand’s threatened native species, such as kiwi and kokako, would be at serious risk of extinction. It would be pretty sad to see these native icons disappear off the planet!
The poster is not aimed at children. It was originally published in Forest & Bird magazine (adult audience) but it does aim to convey messages in an easily understood way.
To answer pointas raised here: pest control (including use of 1080 or other poison bait) does not cause forests to fall silent - quite the opposite. I have been to many forests where pest control has been conducted and the result is a forest thriving with native birds. In contrast I have seen many forests where pest numbers are high and birds are virtually absent due to predation by introduced pests, and vegetation is stripped bare. Killing pests is no more "cruel" than a stoat killing a nest of kokako chicks is "cruel". The difference is that one is an invasive pest species that is completely out of place in the NZ environment and will cause untold damage if not controlled. The other is a unique, endangered, highly vulnerable species found nowhere else in the world and we have a responsibility to protect it with best means we have. And that, for now, includes use of 1080.
The people who support 1080 need to explain how the target animal actually dies. What is the mechanism that kills the animal? In the case of a predator animal like a stoat or weasel they are trained killers and the prey meet their end quickly. Cruelty is when we put animals or humans through unnecessary suffering during the act of dying. This is why i have no problem with trapping using effective traps, the end is instant and final, it is not cruel.
Having observed my cat thoroughly enjoying himself by spinning out the death of a mouse as long as he can to keep the fun going (till I intervened to put the poor thing out of its misery) I'm not sure I am convinced of the merciful nature of predators.
Our felines are not relying, totally on a mouse for food. They toy with things attracted by the movement and yes, I hate this about cats but they know no better.... they don't play with things to be 'cruel'.... that is their nature. We should know better.
And how do the birds feel when they stave to death because all there food has been eaten by the possums? And how do the trees feel being slowly eaten to death? Use cyanide when you can and 1080 when you can't.
And we don't drop 1080 to be 'cruel', we do it to be kind. By dropping 1080 and eliminating pests we are helping our native species.
My apologies for being as flippant as the poster, but now I can't get the images of F&Bers snuggling up to pellets of 1080 out of my head! One imagines that it can't be that cruelly destrucitve if all these people are knowingly smooching with it....Either that or we're all fools. Is that what's being said? That's pretty nasty and cruel in itself really...
Oh, by the way, when I was a kid my parents kept chooks, and one time a stoat got in and killed lots of them but didn't eat them or take them away - one can only assume it enjoyed toying with killing them much like the cat toys with a dying mouse. So, yes, it may have killed each quickly and efficiently, but while the others presumably watched and ran around in terror...
All fools? Uninformed is the better word. People have smooched up to poisons for years without knowing the effects. Read Silent Spring.
Perhaps a more enlightening read would be the excellent cover story published in the most recent Your Weekend (the magazine with weekend Fairfax newspapers) in which a guy who has done amazing work protecting kokako acknowledges that without 1080 we would not be able to protect this and many other amazing NZ species from predators. Totally recommend it as a really inspiring story about someone who has made a huge commitment to conservation.
Another interesting read to understand predator and prey behaviour is Animals in Translation by Temple Grandin and Catherine Johnson.
I agree with Maggie. Just how well informed are we about 1080 and how it kills? What alternatives have been tried? I'm sure the advocates of this poison are not being deliberately cruel however I do wonder if they care about the methods they use to kill animals.
I don't question that 1080 kills pests and in that respect has helped to save threatened species. The point at issue is whether there are other methods out there that would do the same or a better job in a more humane way. Surely the object of the exercise is to eliminate introduced species not advocate for 1080.
The only reason I've heard for using this poison is one of cost, and for me that is not a good reason. I would like to see us put out a challenge to people to come up with a more effective humane way to control pests so we can get out of the hole we are in. The irony is that possum fur is used in high quality clothing for it's thermal qualities and they are an endangered species in Aussie.
I'd love any of you to come down to Southern South Westland where I am lucky to be living and see all the birds around us. You can look out, as I am doing now on the giant southern rata on the hillsides and the huge tree fuchsia that carpet the valleys out my window.
This is one of the last strongholds in mainland New Zealand of giant podocarp trees, fuchsia nearly 25 metres high, scarlet mistletoe and really healthy rata. All these are utterly vulnerable to browsing to extinction by possums.Go to the famous Upper Arahura Valley behind Hokitika (where the pounamu comes from) and see what happens in a place where there has never been any formal possum control. Virtually all the rata and fuchsia trees are now dead and there are very few native birds.
Here in South Westland we heard morepork last night all night. This morning we were woken up by flocks of both kea and kaka. There are very few places where you get both coexisting. Today there are kereru flying in big flocks feeding on the fuchsia fruits. There are big groups of silvereye, the chorus of bellbird and tui and a little tomtit is chasing sandflies just outside our window. We also had a falcon yesterday sitting on a fence post and it allowed us to walk up to within a few metres and still didn't move!
Forest and Bird did a fantastic job through the 1970s and 80s saving all these South Westland forests from the loggers. In 1977 Lands and Survey even proposed clearing all this valley and creating 16 dairy farms! Since 1991 it has been protected as a World Heritage Site. However those of us involved in the forest protection campaign always accepted that stopping the loggers and farmers clearing the valley was only part of saving it. The other part was controlling the insidious impact of introduced pests.In 1978 a Forest Service funded study in the pristine, unlogged Windbag Valley just east of us here found that the remaining kaka were 91% old male birds. The females and chicks had mostly been killed by stoats in their tree hole nesting sites. It was a tragedy that demanded urgent action.
DOC gave this valley a top national priority for pest control to save rare birds and because it was a NZ stronghold for mistletoe. Since 1991 every 3-4 years DOC has carried out precise helicopter 1080 operations over all the forests that surround us here and throughout this valley. The next treatment is scheduled for June 2009. In addition for the last 20 years we have trapped stoats and have bait stations here for rats, possums and stoats. However the scope and benefit of our pest control work is very minor compared to the aerial treatment. The landscape is so broken and rugged that there is simply no way you could control pests in this valley on foot. Nor would it be as effective as aerial operations because ground work always leaves pockets of pests that re-invade their surrounds.
I strongly support what DOC has done here and urge evryone to support an extension of this programme to save all the special places that you love too. It is simply a cop out to do nothing and say that we should wait for some alternative control method to be invented. We have been waiting on the scientists for years and years with little progress towards biological control. If you are an endangered bird like a blue duck (abundant now in this valley but disappearing in most other places) or if you are the last of the kaka, you don't have the luxury of waiting on the scientists because you will be dead, killed by the stoats while some people sat wringing their hands and doing nothing.
Of course we don't like the fact that we have to take active steps using chemical or physical methods to control these killer animals..but that is the legacy of being a New Zealander. We are the guardians of some of the world's most extraordinary and vulnerable plants and animals. We have inherited the stupid mistakes made by our ancestors who bought the pests here from England and Australia in the first place. Don't forget that, driven by the desire to practice "biological control" of rabbits, stoats were bought to New Zealand. Read the book "Molesworth" and see how in the late 1800s they were breeding large numbers of stoats and catching cats throughout Christchurch to liberate on Molesworth to control plagues of rabbits!
All the best with your pest control efforts! It is worth it
DOC lies about nearly everything probably out of ignorance.
I used to see weka everywhere , indiscriminant poisoning has wiped them out. Now they are found around population centres where they handle cats dogs stoats people etc and the disease doc says wiped them out quite well !!!
DOC and F & B are ignoramausus.
"DOC and F & B are ignoramausus."
LOL! I do like irony.
I'm totally opposed to aerial dumps of 1080 in general. Fine (perhaps) if stringent ground control methods are delpoyed, but certainly not blanket dumps of the stuff. And that hype about GPS tracking etc to avoid streams and waterways when blanket dumping 1080 is a load of .... I was hunting in the Whataroa Catchment back in Feb 2007 and helicopters were dumping the stuff across streams, rivers, small bush tarns EVERYWHERE!!!
And it greatly concerns me that this poster (aimed at brainwashing children) blatantly fails to point out the wider impacts from secondary poisoning to non target species of birds and inveterbrates from breaking down contaminated carcasses.
And not to mention also failing to point out that weka, kea, tomtits, robins, freshwater crayfish etc are highly susceptible to primary poisoning.
For more discussion, check out http://www.thegrafboys.blogspot.com/
Never used poison to kill rats and mice then? Or poison to kill ants even?
And if you had I'm sure you kept a close eye on the poison and where the insects like the ants carried it to, to make sure no other creatures got at it!
As some well-known ads say, Yeah, right!!
I don't know about you, but I find hypocrits more upsetting than ignoramausus...
As for looking for an alternative - how many times does it need to be said that this is what is being called for? It just comes down to whether you want to do anything about the pests in the interim, or wait til a so-called alternative appears and hope like hell that there's still something native left to save. I don't want to fiddle while Rome burns thanks.
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Maybe in Auckland here we're a bit more aware of how easy it is to lose nature and then what it's like when it's gone. It does make me laugh though, your desire Mountainman to speed up the process of bringing Auckland to a place near you...And we're told that the rest of NZ doesn't want to be like Auckland!! Just keep waiting for 'an alternative' - we'll be at your place before you can shake a leafless stick.
AA, I don't see your point.
I'm talking about a toxin that is blanket dumped across NZ's native forests (an open ecosystem) when there are clearly alternatives available and you're talking about poisoning ants within a controlled environment with sprays etc? Apples & Oranges...
And as for rats & mice, I'm old fashioned and so the simple trap method is perfect for me. That way you won't have to deal with a smelly rat somewhere in your cupboards because the poison didn't wallop it quick enough.
Not everything has to be poisoned
Pest contractors are a viable (albeit more expensive) alternative. But at what cost should we place on conserving NZ's native wildlife and promoting our apparent "clean, green image"? For instance, pest contractors are very effective at trapping & shooting possums to keep lids on possum numbers, and their furs, skins, and/or meat can be utilised in various ways (for clothing accessories or pet food).
And in the process put a $$monetary value on controlling a nuisance species.
You speak about pest control like there's no alternatives.. Goodness me, you need to get out of Auckland more
A pretty damned high cost on preserving NZ's native wildlife actually.
But I think I'm starting to see a "Pick me for a job" theme here....
And no, there's no alternatives to pest control that'll magically make the pests disappear. Or did you mean an alternative to using chemicals? An alternative like, oh I don't know, paying for trapping by a professional hunter for example. One that can scale vertical cliffs too.
And just finally, what about areas that have possums, but it's too dangerous for people to let others shoot in that area, so it is illegal. Hmmm - maybe you need to get into some urban areas more.
MountainMan you should fine a 150acars somewere, (easy terain) and start traping it for RATS CATS STOATS AND POSSUMS. I give you less then 6 months to you will be pro 1080!
When you start trapping for concervation, (like i do evrey day) it is blatantly obviously we need more 1080 in nz!
Please forgive me Kukupa, but I was unable to decipher your post above!
And AA, are you saying that 1080 makes the pests magically disappear? If so, how is it that we seem to still have between 70 and 90 million possums in NZ?
You all still haven't responded to the above comment... at what cost are we willing to risk losing native species as bykills to aerial dumps of 1080 (whether through primary or secondary poisoning?)
The following native (and some non-native)species are known to die from primary or secondary poisoning from 1080:
Long-tailed Bat
NZ Falcon
Kereru
Kakariki species
Yellowhead
Bellbird
Brown creeper
Fantail
Grey Warbler
Kingfisher
Long-tailed Cuckoo
Rifleman
Shining Cuckoo
Silvereye
South Island Fernbird
South Island Robin
Tomtit
Tui
Ruru
Australasian harrier
Shags
Paradise shelduck
Banded dotterel
Black billed gull
Red billed gull
Banded dotterel
Oystercatcher
Black fronted tern
Mallard
exotic finches
Black backed gull
Blackbird
Thrush
Starling
Feral Deer
Feral Pigs
Feral Sheep
Feral Goats
Possums
Cats
Ferrets
Stoats
Rats
Have a read of -
http://www.kaka1080.co.nz/aerial_monofluoroacetate.pdf
And the fact that 1080 kills invertebrates (the wee critters that live in the forest litter, soils, logs, waterways that break down & decompose organic matter), makes everything that feeds off of invertebrates (like birds, reptiles and other mammals) susceptible to secondary poisoning. They will suffer the same fate as the pests that the poison is aimed at targetting.
Is that not of a concern to you? It certainly is for me.
The long list of invertebrates at risk from poisoning could be as long as your drive way, maybe even your street... And these critters are suppoesed to form the backbone of an ecosystem. And you still think 1080 is the best solution we've got???
AA, I can sense this is one of those Tui moments... Yeah Right
I responded briefly to your question about costs for saving natives, MM. In one of my earlier comments. Makes me wonder what else you've missed.
Now for the not-so-brief answer; and remember, you asked for it!!...8-)
We aren't risking losing native SPECIES to bykill. We're doing this to save native SPECIES. What you're talking about in bykill are individual animals. I understand how you'd get confused though. Here's a question for you though; Please name a native species that is at risk of getting wiped out by 1080 (not a few individual animals, like the list you give above, name a whole species that'll go...). Now, name a whole species that could be done in by pests. There you go - answers the "at what cost" question all by itself.
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Weka for a start are hugely at risk from both primary and secondary poisoning.
According to statistics - at a 95 confidence interval - aerially applied 1080 is wiping out anywhere between 10 and 50% of weka, tomtit and kea's populations from any given area that's been studied.
Note the word "population", as opposed to "individual". You do realise that individuals make up a population don't you? And so a population of 100 wekas being wiped out at a rate of 25%, means that after a blanket dump, you've wiped out 25 individuals. It's not rocket science
And that's from each aerial dump. Blanket dump that same area in 3 years time (for infinity according to DOCs policy) and be prepared to slowly wipe out weka. And they're just one example
So it's not a matter of what species will be wiped out; it's a matter of when.
As for costings - DoC and AHB spend at least $50m per year on pest control, which if you look at possum numbers currently they're still way up above 50 million individuals, and yet we've successfully managed to blanket dump a toxin into our forests and waterways.
Average price per kg of fur is around $80 / kg (can reach over $100 /kg). In a good season an average trapper can produce 350 kg's of furr, which (at a rate of 15 possums per kg) is 5250 possums.
Employ say 3000 individual trappers across the Nation to look after certain bush blocks, give them a target of 5000 possums each year and pay them a wage, plus a commission of some sort to incentivise it, and you're looking at 3000 ppl x 5000 possums = 15million dead possum's each year.
Which turns into a $80m fur industry (at assumed prices, catch rates, & personal) for instance.
Where there's a will there's a way.
And I don't know the answer for rats
And experienced trappers in areas high densities of possums can on average trap around 50 possums per night.
So if we were to assume the average trapper worked 200 nights away in the field, that's 10,000 possums per season.
Anyway, my point is, there are alternatives, and I think the extra financial cost associated to trapping far outweighs the risks associated to widespread (aerial) use of a toxin such as 1080.
Fine perhaps if it's (carefully) managed for ground control, but certainly not from the air.
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