How come the Minister of Conservation is "absolutely outraged" about the Norwegian hunters' video clip of them shooting a keruru, but we are all "hysterical" when we are outraged about plans by her colleagues (and with her support) to mine on conservation land of ecological importance?
Forest & Bird » Other
That infamous clip of Norwegians shooting a keruru
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Simply put for you AA
I know someone who works in the minerals and energy sector, they work 4 months of the year and earn over $200,000, thats $4000 per week.
What country does not want energy or mineral exploration money.
All those roads, hospitals, universities generous social services etc etc things that keep govts in power.Countries only become environmentally aware when they achieve a high level of technology and wealth, as New Zealand slips further down the OECD tables expect environment issues to take a back seat.
A mine on the west coast can inject an extra $20,000,000 into the local economy it is controlled and the impact occurs in one valley only.
To generate the same sort of income off tourism would mean how many more cars driving up and down the coast burning hydrocarbons; how many more hotels, motels, how many more takeaway bars, and public toilets built ?Last time I tried to stay in ole Gerry Mc Sweenys eco bungalows near Moeraki it was going to cost me over $800 per night might be $1000 now.
Who in NZ can afford that ?I am not defending mining I am putting an alternative veiw out there.
BTW if a significant energy or mineral deposit is found and mined in NZ forget about forestry, fishing, dairy and tourism, our strong dollar will make the country too expensive for tourists to visit, just like Norway and their oil.
You got it right though, Kate is not that bothered about mining and getting all outraged about a pigeon makes her sound good. Question ? how many of these righteous people getting all angry about this one pigeon are actually going to start really saving birds by helping us prise maggoty mustilids out of traps ?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks for putting it simply for me.
Posted 1 year ago # -
But the question was actually about why one outrage is "hysteria" when another one isn't. Mining wasn't the issue. I'm not "anti-mining" either. Am pro-looking after our environment though, and that means keeping a few areas of the conservation estate free from it.
Getting sanctimonious about what others' behaviour is like isn't going to help the environment one little bit.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Compliant minister playing to her PM ? what else would she say ?
I am a hunter and have heard Forest and Birds Sue Maturin and I think Eugene Sage (both people I respect by the way) at various times label hunters as "selfish" for wanting deer to hunt.
Believe me, I am not going to enjoying seeing environmentalists labelled "selfish" over mining but thats where this is heading. Electoral isolation is a lonely place.Posted 1 year ago # -
hunters don't want to hunt in or near mining operations either and some of them are excellent conservationists !
Sorry to see you've been sucked in by the govt spin on the economics of the proposed mining in areas that are currently in S4 for a reason - high conservations values, high bio-diversity ! if they have to make a mess I don't mind the overseas mining companies making their mess on marginal land preferably marginal private land and being made to carry the full cost of pollution, flooding, etc.
Don't you realise that this is the thin end of the wedge, this 7000ha of our best conservation estates land that belong to the people of nz ... then the overseas miners get the govt subsidising $4 million (of our money) to look for more minerals in more high biodiversity S4 land like Rakiura NP Kahurangi etc and the miners take the profits overseas leaving nzers with the mess to clean up or live with - tailings, trucks, increased erosion and flooding etc There's no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow just a govt keen to look like they are supporting business and (spurious) economic gains
McSweeney's high end ecotourism rates help generate the clean green profits that are part of the $21 billion that this industry makes while promoting nz to the world ... not something you can do as a mining industry especially when you have also wrecked nz's tourism industry !
Posted 1 year ago # -
Agree totally with kauri. Mine on marginal lands and pay to clean up, and also have the higher % of any profits stay in NZ. Can't see why this is so hard for the govt to understand. Makes me wonder who might be paying them to look the other way!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm a bit puzzled understanding Speargrass's logic above in his/her comparison of our ecotourism business (Wilderness Lodges) and mining.
On the one hand we get a lecture about all the economic benefits of goldmining, how much goldminers earn and why this justifies ripping into the protected natural Schedule 4 National Park/Conservation land and disfiguring them forever. Millions of tonnes of rock are hauled out of the earth, treated with cyanide and other toxic chemicals to produce a few kilograms of gold. This is (mostly) sold as high priced jewellery items to be locked away for much of its time in vaults for security.
To Speargrass this is OK. There doesn't seem to be any objection from Speargrass to gold being sold for high prices or seeking it to be discounted to make it more affordable to Speargrass.
On the other hand our eco tourism business uses New Zealand's marvellous protected World Heritage forest and wildlife over and over again without destroying it as a setting for providing high quality accommodation, food and guided nature adventures. We charge a price that reflects the costs of living in a remote location, employing staff, sourcing food and wine and generating our own electricity. But apparently it is not OK to charge a price that reflects that because Speargrass thinks that it is too expensive. Fortunately not everyone shares Speargrass's viewpoint. This year we celebrate 20 years of hosting guests from all around the world at Wilderness Lodge Lake Moeraki and the fact that we are still here tells you that we are meeting a market demand.
Speargrass is lucky that he/she appears to live in a wild beautiful place and can easily access the outdoors. Many of the thousands of people who visit our ecotourism business every year come from artificial, modified landscapes both inside and outside NZ and are not so fortunate. They value the eco tourism that we provide and are prepared to pay for it just as someone who values gold is prepared to pay for gold jewellery.
Wild, unspoilt nature is gold. Our business and those operating in all the small rural communities on the West Coast and elsewhere in NZ have developed eco tourism to create jobs and provide a sustainable future. This is not easy but it is one way, and certainly not the only way, of creating a future for our small communities, creating jobs and giving our children a future.
Moreover, most of these eco tourism businesses are actively involved in advocacy to protect nature and National Parks in their areas. Many are also involved in practical conservation projects. Our guests help to remove weed lodgepole pines to save Dracophyllum, Hebe and rare orchid shrublands. They also plant red and yellow mistletoe seeds to re-establish these endangered plants and are helping to maintain bait stations to kill rats, stoats and possums.
Eco tourism also caters to the diversity of tourist demands. This weekend we hosted a West Coast wedding. The bride and groom and many of the guests came from all over the West Coast. They chose to have the wedding this month to secure our low season rates. Every tourism business has a range of rates for different times of the year and caters for different markets just as jewellery shops have sales and offer different products!
If you don't want to stay in a Wilderness Lodge in the heart of the South West NZ World Heritage Site, you can stay and enjoy excellent hospitality at the Haast WIlderness Backpackers, the Haast World Heritage Hotel, the Mt Aspiring Motels or you can stay at the Haast Motor Camp or camp at the DOC camping area at Lake Paringa.
The real gold from our protected areas comes from healthy functioning natural ecosystems, birds, plants and wetlands and the pride that most New Zealanders gain from our protected area system as well as nature tourism. We should all do our utmost to protect the West Coast World Heritage Areas and National Parks and Schedule 4 areas throughout NZ from the ravages of the mining industry and a Government hell bent on stripping away the conservation protections that generations before us have worked to achieve.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes !
Posted 1 year ago # -
Jeez read my post again ...... talk about threatened angry people going off ! you may be hysterical after all, Kate might be correct. AA asked how a minister can express outrage at a pigeon being shot and label another group; forest and bird as hysterical for correctly opposing mining which will also severely impact the environment.
If you read carefully what I wrote you will read this quote
"I am not defending mining I am putting an alternative veiw out there"
I explained another perception of the issue and I am telling you why it appeals to a certain section of the electorate.
Kauri Wrote: "Sorry to see you've been sucked in by the govt spin on the economics of the proposed mining in areas that are currently in S4 for a reason"
Whether I have been sucked in by mining as claimed none of you would know,
Tawaki Wrote: "I'm a bit puzzled understanding Speargrass's logic above in his/her comparison of our ecotourism business (Wilderness Lodges) and mining."
Impact on the environment can take many forms, more cars more tourists, more visitors or mining they all have an impact.
Tawaki Wrote: "On the one hand we get a lecture about all the economic benefits of goldmining, how much goldminers earn and why this justifies ripping into the protected natural Schedule 4 National Park/Conservation land and disfiguring them forever'
I did not deign to deliver a lecture on minng at all, but I sure got a lecture back, I was explaining why I think the Govt is attempting to change public perception. I feel it is pointless trying to continue discussing the difference between perception position and politics
Tawaki Wrote: "To Speargrass this is OK. There doesn't seem to be any objection from Speargrass to gold being sold for high prices or seeking it to be discounted to make it more affordable to Speargrass"
It does not matter what I think, the question was what is the Govt trying to get people to think.
If I was pro mining and If I wanted to make a case for mining I would not bother on here thats for sure.If I had one comment its this
As an example though to be honest here take a lodge like Tawakis on the West Coast. How many people at the lodge are local ? for the lodge to remain open it relies on millions of passenger air miles being burnt every year to get people to the lodge. Eco business needs oil, it needs mining for the things to get people to the lodge, The lodge is beautiful and expensive, thats business, good on anyone who backed themsleves to make a lodge like that, All of you just dont carry on like your pure and totally green and dont need any of the things that come out of the ground.
Environmentalists need to consider the fact some people in New Zealand might actually not care very much about the environment, this may come as a surprise. We should all be grateful south island conservation board members and meetings are drawn from and held in the south island conservancies and not in Auckland and Hamilton where the bulk of the taxpayers are.
As an aside I have a good Geo mate who helped assay the Murchisons, you would be very dismayed to know the results.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You're right, not everyone cares about the environment - pity some of them are in political positions where they're supposed to!
Auckland Anne and kauri didn't say not to take things out of the ground - just be choosy about where you do it. So it's not everyone "carrying on like they're all pure" etc etc or however you said it.
And if that's the way you get all aggro, then Auckland and Hamilton are probably glad for it to stay in SI too!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Getting back to the Norwegians who shot the Kereru for a moment ... just watched MinCon Kate Wilkinson on video denouncing it, and saying that " if anyone comes into our home and ruins it, damages it, and steals from it, they should pay for it." Totally agree. They should be locked up.
Maybe she could apply the same logic to overseas miners who threaten to come into our home - our National Parks - ruin it, damage it and steal from it. They should be locked up too or at least locked out. Locked out of Schedule 4 high bio-diversity conservation land that is.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Article from today's herald about the keruru hunters and DoC's stance
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10635227Posted 1 year ago # -
Love the bit about "the rifleman shooting the keruru".
But seriously DoC, go get 'em!
Posted 1 year ago # -
One pigeon and DoC are going to show how tough they are, one Norwegian tourist shoots a pigeon they go for the throat, one German guide guides a party without concession in Kahurangi and they nail his skin to the wall.
Doc are really tough on tourists, its easy when the evidence is handed to them. Pity DoC have no balls when it comes to helihunts, an illegal concession flying all over NZ during which a tourist is killed and Doc cover it up. The threat of one QC and the big tough Doc dog cowers in the corner.
the Norwegians will be punished one way or another, pity about the rest of NZ's hunters and backcountry users being stuffed by DoC.Maybe a request to your area conservation boards ref mining would be a good idea.
Ask the boards to supply a position on mining in sched 4 areas within their conservancies. If they are strong and opposed to the activity then ask for a motion of censure to be passed on the suggestion sched 4 was on the table for mining.
The motion will have no power, boards only recomend but the censure will give the boards the opportunity to respond to the push for mining from the govt. It will aslo serve as a media rally point for more debate on this issue.Posted 1 year ago #
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