follow DoC so blindly? DoC is a govt funded organisation that then purchase from the NZ Govt...1080 and brodifacoum, at great expense. 1080 was made in the USA and is not now sold or used in the Usa. Why is it still being used here? And why is F & B condoning its use?
Forest & Bird » Marine and Coastal
Why does F & B?
(27 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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1080 is not used in the States because they have native land mammals. Unlike us.
Posted 3 years ago # -
F&B doesn't follow DOC blindly - it has often been critical of DOC where it didn't agree with DOC's stance. But in the case of 1080, F&B agrees that 1080 is a necessary, safe and effective means of protecting our vulnerable native plants and animals from introduced pest species. Without it we would lose many more of our unique native species to extinction.
Posted 3 years ago # -
1080 is not 'safe'. It is effective certainly.
http://www.stop1080poison.com/Posted 3 years ago # -
Re the safety of 1080: 1080 has been used in NZ for more than 50 years and there is not a single instance of 1080 having had any impact on human health. It also does not remain in the environment, but breaks down on contact with water and soil.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Many many chemicals and poisons have been used in NZ for many many years and it is only now that the impact on human health is being found out. You cannot poison off one species without affecting the entire food chain. 1080 kills off invertebrates..... 1080 kills off mice, possums etc.. then along comes the flies and the dead or slowing dying animal gets fly blown... then along comes the kiwi, moreport and feeds on the maggots - all leads to dead and dying animals. I have seen it. I saw it and it sickened me and I studied it. Wish others would.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The emotive rhetoric of the anti-1080 brigade is actually very very dangerous for our precious native wildlife. If we were unable to poison the thousands of predators that every single day are wiping out our natural heritage, we'd lose it.
I'm sorry, but the science IS sound, and its about time that these people who claim the dangers of 1080 read, learned and listened to the science. Internationally peer-reviewed, proper methodology, proper results.
If you want to learn about how 1080 has affected native species scientifically, try here www.lincoln.ac.nz/1080
I think the anti-1080 brigade might get more of an ear from those they complain to if they took the time to learn the science, and help them work towards alternative suggestions.
And if you want to see how bad those predators are, and how they're wiping out native species every day in every inch of our forest, try here.
http://www.predatortraps.com/facts_videos.htmNow that's a cruel and unnecessary death.
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Posted 3 years ago # -
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'The emotive rhetoric of the anti-1080 brigade is actually very very dangerous for our precious native wildlife' - excuse me but the emotive rhetoric of the pro 1080 brigrade is also very very dangerous for our precious native wildlife...... it is also very dangerous for F & B to continue surviving financially... I am not an emotive anti 1080 campaigner.... I care for wildlife and do bird rescue and I am constantly appalled by damage to birds and other animals... by poisons. I am also informed due to research.
I know so many people who would support F & B but will not, due to their stance on the use of poisons....Posted 3 years ago # -
Maggie, Maggie, Maggie!
It's people like you that make me very sad!
I am a possum trapper, I use cyanide and there is just no way we can keep up with the possums. Without 1080 there will be no bush left!Posted 3 years ago # -
Likewise Kukupa.... I feel sad also... never the twain shall meet. You can't poison off one species without affecting the entire food chain.....
Posted 3 years ago # -
Maggie when will you learn?? !!
1080 IS MUCH, MUCH BETTER FOR THE BUSH AND BIRDS THEN NO BUSH AT ALL!!! WAKE UP!Posted 3 years ago # -
Maggie come and see the Kaimai Mamaku forests, they're well on the way to collapse. No large scale 1080 operations happening here! Wish they were though...
Posted 3 years ago # -
I have seen places like this Sue... after brodafacoum pellets.... hushed at night.... dead birds....
dead kiwis from feeding on dead rodents.....Posted 3 years ago # -
Why is everyone beating up on Maggie what she is saying is correct, I have met a number of people who will not support F&B because of this one issue, You will never find an alternative to 1080 if you don't look and what I am reading is a very polarised view. I only hang around F&B because the people care about the things that are important to me, it is the method of solving the problem that causes the friction.
The sad part is that the people who are trying to clear up the mess that others have caused are divided. We need to accept that Maggie has a point and that we need to work towards a solution that we can all agree on.
Posted 3 years ago # -
A guy from DOC told me yesterday that you are no longer able to use brodafacoum (pestoff) on mainland NZ. ?? Not sure if he's right or not??
Posted 3 years ago # -
Maggie - I agree with you that in a perfect world we would not need any poison - but then what is poison ... is salt a poison ? There is a great deal of natural salt in the world, like our oceans are full of it. Try drinking salt water for a few weeks and see what happens to you. Or ask a leech that has had salt poured on it... so you see, it is a matter of extent. And the chemical component of 1080 is also a naturally occuring substance - like salt is. So before you tell other people off for having a valid opinion, remember that they have the right, as you do, to a valid opinion. AND remember that methodology has changed, ways change, and Kupapa said it... better a bush with some "poison" and a bit of bykill than no bush at all and no native species to worry about - after all - the rats will still be hungry once all the native birds are gone...
Posted 3 years ago # -
Brodifacoum was used in my area a few years ago kukupa.... we had dead dogs, dead cats, dead kiwis, dead moreporks.....Cynthia - hadn't noticed that I was telling other people off for having a valid opinion....
Thanks Wellyboot.... you and I should get together :) :)
Posted 3 years ago # -
that sounds very dodgy to me Maggie. would you mind enlightening us as to where and when this brodifacoum operation was? let's look into the facts eh.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Good dead dogs! Dead cats! I often see wild dogs in the bush these days, as for cats...kill them all!!
Posted 3 years ago # -
Unfortunately comments like the last one are not helpful to this discussion. People have lived with dogs and cats since ancient times and they have their place but I agree dogs and cats don't belong in our forests.
I would like to get back to the point that started this thread. If the US does not use 1080 what do they do to rid themselves of pest mammals?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yeah that did sound a bit harsh, sorry I meant wild dogs and cats in our forests.
But who cares what the US does!! 1080 works well for NZ. It kills rats and possums and other mammals! GREAT!! For the dumb that equals native bush flourishing, which means native birds also to flourish! It's a no brainer!!! And wherever they are using it the birds are coming back! Because there are trees, which equals fruit for them to eat!
PS. Use cyanide when you can't use 1080, and watch the bush grow!!Posted 3 years ago # -
Wellyboot - the US use all sorts of methods when they have pest mammals - but they also have wolves, bears, coyotes wolverines, cougars, etc to help. More importantly, they aren't New Zealand. That might sound a bit simplistic, but it is the unusual and totally unique flora and fauna of NZ that we are concerned about here - if we dumb humans hadn't brought all the pests with us when we came, we wouldn't have to be trying to control them all now - like we are. In the US, the ecosystem did not evolve as it did here.
In my opinion we are getting close to having to resign ourselves to the inevitability of the total demise of most NZ native fauna - which seems like a tragedy to me. We have lost a lot already. In my opinion, 1080 is one of the most effective tools in our remaining struggle.
Posted 3 years ago # -
It is often stated that NZ is the only place where 1080 is used. I'm sure that readers know that Australia shares our huge challenges in controlling introduced pests.There, the big issue is foxes and feral cats. Foxes were introduced to control rabbits but are devastating to all the special small marsupials. These have delightful names such as quolls, numbats, bilbys, bandicoots,tiger cats and hopping mice (actually not mice but marsupials).In the NSW National Parks they extensively use 1080 to control foxes and it has been very effective and helped save many of the ground dwelling native marsupials. Of course it is interesting that many Australian plants naturally contain sodium fluoracetate(1080) and it functions to protect those plants against browsers such as brush tailed possums!
Posted 3 years ago # -
Going right back to a question from kukupa about DoC not using broadifacoum on the mainland - I asked a F&B staff person the other day, and he says that's right, they don't use it on the mainland....
So in that area alone, F&B isn't "following DoC blindly" it seems....
He also says that broadificoum and 1080 are extremely different beasts, so it's a misnomer to talk about them in the same sentence really. Broadificoum is FAR more toxic apparently. Whereas 1080 is a naturally-occuring chemical compound, as Gerry mentions.Posted 2 years ago # -
Brodifacoum and 1080 are both excellent tools used to get rid of pests. which is what we must endeavour to continue if we want our grandchildren to know what it is to have birds like kiwi or kaka around.
Incidentally, brodifacoum is 'rat bait' can be bought from your local supermarket or hardware store.
Posted 2 years ago # -
At a meeting I was at on the weekend, the message I took from the DoC conservator about basically why they don't use Brodificoum on the mainland, but they do on some islands, is because of the risk that the Brodificoum will bio-accumulate in pigs and deer and other animals that people hunt and eat. I think that this was what he was getting at anyway.
So in the first place it seemed to me that the concern is more about how it could possibly adversely affect humans who hunt and eat these particular large mammals (as opposed to by-catch in general), and secondly, wouldn't the pigs or deer or whatever large animals have to ingest copious (huge?) quantities (well more than even a handful of bait pellets contain?) to accumulate it to such toxic degrees? The fact that it is as readily available as Piwakawaka points out, one would hope so, and even assume!!!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
"Rat Bait" (brodifacoum) is an incredibly effective way of controlling pests if it is carefully used in bait stations. The labels vary with Talon being the best known but "Pest Off" is now the most widely used. Both are available in hardware shops and are extensively used to control mice, rats and possums in many households, farms and factories. They look like blue coloured soaps and are irresistable to rodents.
Pest Off in bait stations are used by Regional Councils particularly the Auckland RC in their incredibly successful Auckland programmes that are bringing the native birds back to that region. They have been the key to the success of Forest and Bird's "Ark in the Park" programme. Community groups and individuals are using theses bait stations throughout the country with great success.
DOC still use this chemical on mainland NZ but have a tight protocol for its use ever since some of their contractors/staff who were supposed to be doing pest control went off hunting pigs in the area and ate the pigs livers (where the chemical would be expected to accumulate if the pigs were eating possum carcasses). The contractors were unharmed but DOC felt there was a risk so stopped the use of this chemical. The general group of anti-coagulants must be used with caution but we shouldn't forget that one of them, Coumadin, is prescribed to about 25% of male humans over 65 to eat as a blood thinner! I'm often amused when peolple from DOC say they don't want to use Pest Off because it might be dangerous. Instead they want to use Ferretox baits which are actually cyanide and are highly dangerous to humans!
The huge advantage of Pest Off/ Talon/brodifacoum is that you get all the stoats in an area through a secondary kill when the stoats eat a possum or a rat or mouse that has eaten "Pest Off". Thus bait stations using Pest Off enable you to get all the pests in one hit;possums, rats, mice and stoats. Scientific studies have shown that insects are unaffected by the bait and birds are one ten thousand times less susceptible to it's effects that mammals. Both birds and insects have different circulatory systems than mammals.
Pest Off/Talon is now being re-used by DOC in many mainland sites because having restricted its use some years ago, they have now realised that it is the most effective tool they have to control rats! Their Operation Ark sites are mostly using it because they have to control the surging rat populations in these areas that have resulted from DOC focusing on stoat trapping. By removing stoats that mostly eat rats, rats tend to step up as the next dominant predator and devastate birdlife. The answer? You have to use a system that gets ALL the rats, stoats mice and possums and not just focus on one of them.
In our area, we are having great success with restoring endangered birds and threatened mistletoe by using Pest Off bait stations.
Posted 2 years ago #
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